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Dundeecast
Dundeecast

Episode · 6 months ago

19: The Logie Project

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Andrew speaks with Rachel Boyd and Matthew Knights from the Logie Project.

Who I'm under Bachelor and welcome tothe brand new series of Dundee cast, a podcast where ice talk ten masonpeople from in and Aroun Dundee and people who have had a connection to thecity. On the first episode of this new series I talked to Rachel Boydand Matthew Knights from the wogie project. The WOGIE project was set up tocelebrate a hundred years of the wogie house in the state in Dundee, whichis an oldest council house in the state in Scotland. Due to the ongoingCOVID pandemic, celebrations for it's a hundred times first yew were halted, butthere's hope that once a pandemic dies down will you will get proper celebration tomarkets one hundredth anniversary. Rachal Matthew will let you know more about the projectand talk about their aims and goals. So then't further ADO. I hopeyou enjoyed the first episode of this new series of Dundee cast. Enjoy sothe first thing I was going to ask was, so what is Augie projectand what what makes it special? What makes it stand out and what's ITfor? So like that of you, Rachel, and then going to you, Matthew. Yeah, sure. So. The logal a hundred project is acommunity pro project designed to commemorate the the lead centinnity of the logist andDundee, or the Lucky Scheme and Dundee, should I say, which celebrated.It's a hundred tiear in me two thousand and twenty. So really whatwe are looking to do with the loggie project is to get the local communityinvolved, the currently residents of logie involved in commemorate in their own kind ofsocial history. And what I think is quite special about what we really amingto do is that we're looking at the history, we're looking at the research. It's already been conducted by our partners at Dunee city archives, and we'rehoping to connect that with people's own loved experience of living on the scheme andthe present. So we're really hoping to get the local residents involved in thinkingabout what the history of these houses are and thinking about the significance of thislittle part of the world and undee. So I really hoping to kind ofconnect people with the can a larger social history of these houses. The reasonwhy it is so special is that it's the first council housing scheme in Scotlandand that, I think, is something worth community and especially when you thinkabout it in the context of the working classies who the homes were originally intendedfor. Matthew, and what is your thoughts on will be poddy and whatdo you like about it? Yeah, well, I think, like Rachelsaying, there's the opportunity to commemorate it. I'm a writer and a playwright anda lot of and I also teach Crab Ryan. So a lot ofwhat I do is about connecting with people, but also, particularly few social history, which I'm really passionate about. Main Rachel actually met when we werework, both working part time in a museums as we're both kind of reallyinterested in social history generally and I think it's something that you can really reacha lot of people. You can get a lot of people talking about thingsthat they might not know about all things that they might know about, andyou get you get kind of both both sides of that interest me in away. You know, you've always got your people that are kind of abit a bit knowledgeable and they're getting interested in the history and in any area. But you also get people that are kind of like I don't know anythingabout that, but it's on my doorstep and something like logie. It reallykind of is like that. And I suppose for me that I just recentlymoved to Dundee about six months ago from Edinborough, and I guess like there'sa kind of the story of me and cook encountering it as what it's kindof got me started, like in sense that I was just literally I gota house here and I'm just happen to live near Logie and I just walkpast it and there's a plaque there. So, like people that know aboutit will know there's that there was a plaque put in as part of thebuilding, and that's just kind of like...

...the beginning of me thinking exactly.Like what I think happens is that you if you start looking for these things, you can see them everywhere. His history everywhere right so like and aplace like Dundee has just got loads. So, you know, I supposeI'd probably got a bit of an eye for it now because wherever I goI'm always looking out for those any like wheel of plaques or anything. Youknow. I mean I will just be commemory in it. This street wasused to be the you know, the back of a prison or like.This used to be this or whatever, and I guess like starting from thatpoint, I thought well, this is interesting and try to find out aboutit myself and then taking it from there, I guess we've been building and westart we were in the quite early stages of building a project which hopefullywill include different elements which will let people engage with that as well. So, as well as talking about it, which is the starting point, likeseeing if there's ways that we can like maybe record some of those conversations maybe creatively engaged with people as well. So that's kind of where I'm comingout from from that side of it, and Rachel's also does a lot ofresearch work on you like. So we're hoping. We haven't got confirmation,we're hoping we could do some more history as well. I think, justto kind of add on to what Matthew is seeing, we're both really interestedand kind of alternative methods of like knowledge production and the types of history thatpeople know through loved experience and not just from their own education or learning.And so much of housing history is really interesting and that and that perspective becauseit's part of people's loved experience, it's what they know and it's it's reallyheartfelt to them because it's part of not only their childhood but the communities thatthey grew up in and how they, you know, forum that experiences andconnections to place. So we're really interested in like the different ways in whichpeople kind of can engage with that and how we can kind of encourage thoseconversations and record those conversations as part of a real authentic history of lookie's aplace and will gi a hundred project has done a survey for the for theresidents of the area. So what what went until that and how did itall Khama boat and what proop what was the processing than to do in it, and how much did you enjoy doing it and get involved with it?Yeah, well, and we kind of it was initially we thought we wouldbe able to do a bit more than we did, in the sense thatwe thought we kind of hope to be actually go to doorsteps and chapter people, because that is what I thought would be the most obvious thing to do. But because of coronavirus, it was a little bit of restricted in thatrespect. So what we did is we put a leaflet for everyone's door whichbasically said on it, did you know this and do you what do youwant to do? A survey. So we designed like Rachel designer survey.It was quite kind of, quite short and quite easy to do, justasking people what they what they knew about it already and maybe getting a bitof an idea of what what whether they would like to be involved with it, because we didn't really know. To me, we don't really know,especially because I'm I knew here. But then, to be honest, Imean you could do with any street. Could you unlikely to know any evenif you've lived somewhere for ages, you would like to know those people ona given street and Asu. So it's like and yeah, there are twohundred and fifty houses, so that could be quite a lot of people there. So we thought it would be particularly interesting to just go to them firstand see what they had to say, and we've got a view of theirkind of responses and what they think about but we're going to be sharing abit of that honor social media. But we got some feet about from thatand then we're hoping as well as that we can kind of broaden the debateand taught to people beyond just those people as well, because being so iconic, you know, as the first ever council housing, it really prompts outsome debates about like what do we think accounts housing now? What is it'slike? You know what what kind of homes to people kind of aspire to? What kind of works? One of the things that's really noticeable about itis, and I noticed it when I first went there, is how greenit is because you know, it was planned, you know, and that'sthe thing when you plan a bit of...

...housing, a lot of housing,is all it's all being built all over the places. Higgldy peeled, thecity comes up in and all kinds of a mess, but a lot oftime. But but there's something about the plan design. It was a designedby an archect James Thompson, and you know he was he was at theforefront of things at the time and so he was thinking about housing that washad a lot of green space. They've got good stighs gardens. They've gotalso a really Nice corridor green space down the middle of it with trees onit. We have like an avenue, basically, and for that to bedone for what he was intending for be anyway for working class people, whereas, I think, really interesting and I kind of think that's the kind ofpoint I want to saw a look at it. We want to look atit from, like how it's how it's regarding and it's just amazing eyes.Lasts a hundred years. Well, all housing lasts all that long, youknow as well, and and I think from what we're getting people are prettyproud of it on the whole, about you know, it has a bitof a an atmosphere of its own, but it will be interesting to sortof explore that and then maybe we'll be able to kind of like plug intoother people that don't live there but live elsewhere and what they're thinking about there, their housing schemes are there from or or, you know, or justjust you know what is. What does the theme of that throw up,you know, in terms of it might link to kind of contemporary issues asof because it is always, as racial sort of alluded to. It isalways really high in the news politically. Housing is always one of your topsubjects, like health is, you know. So you could look at housing.You could be like any period in history. It would have been apolitical hopping. So the history of this particular scheme was closely tied up withthe Liberal government at the time and the first World War, because they werebuilding housing after the first World War which they called homes fit for heroes,which was a bit of a propaganda thing. Will kind of happened in some waysand kind of didn't happen, though there's a kind of whether it happenedor not, you know, as much as people wanted it to. isa kind of debate that rolls on and then, as you look into it, you know like there's these debates recur over time, you know, soyou've always got these questions coming up. So it's quite it's quite interesting.I think there's a really broad subject we could get into, but what wewanted to do is sort of start really small and just be like, becausethat's all just to like. Can be a lot of wharff or Jen,I mean, and it's interested for people that our historians or no academics andknow about it, but at really like not everyone's going to be like goingto the Chartie Institute housing in conference or even, you know, even beingfull of the politics talking about it, but it does actually affect everyone,you know, like people have a real interest, and that's true in thehistory. And I think the history is really interesting because you look at thehistory and you get a bit of a you automatically compare it to today,you know, in one way or whatever, whether it because it's totally different orbecause there's similarities. So, like one of the things that's interested aboutlogist like it was. It was like it really create a buzz in thecity when it came out. Everyone was like, I don't one of thosehouses, and then I can't remember the numbers, but there was a biggathering, I think it was maybe in Dat Park, I think it was, and there was a big gathering there of people like who've got just tolike see the first pictures of what it was going to be like or somethinglike that, you know. So like it got this massive crowd of peopleand like I think that just kind of it's a subject of you know,that's always going to be popular. Always. It doesn't matter what happens in society, how much things change, you're always going to have that. SoI think it's really interesting to just sort of like almost just just get theconversation started and see what people what people think about all that really. Andwhat do you think, Rachel, I mean what's your thoughts only how it'swaying and how have you enjoyed it? I really have enjoyed it massively.So much to matthew. And I was very new to to Dudy the pointwhere I kind of came in as a community researcher for a little even hundredso I'd only been living in Dundee since July that year. So so thatwas July two thousand and twenty, and I was very new to the cityand also very interested in the depth and wealth of its local history and alot of interest really throughout different facebook groups, even on twitter and on Instagram,in Dundee's local history, even on...

...platforms like yours, Andrew. SoI was really enthusiastic to kind of get involved and the sort of response thatwe had from the survey was really, really encouraging. All in all wegot a hundred and thirteen responses. So one of the ways in which wetried to kind of Matthews touched up on how housing is so much of akind of universal theme for people and how much it resonates to people's everyday livesand their memories and their childhood and their conception of family. And we triedto tie that up quite nicely in a central question which the survey kind ofput out and posed to people, which was what does home mean to you? And people really engaged with that and on across all of our platforms andparticular on twitter but also but also on Instagram, from both endundee and withthose with family connections to Aggie or those who are previously or our current residentsof Logie, but amazingly also people who were loving much further abroad. Sowe had one lady contact as who was from Australia and again just had thisreal connection to this place where she had grown up and she'd spent our childhood. And a lot of these people were leaving really enthusiastic and encouraging comments,you know, and it seemed really important for us to be putting out thisproject as a kind of repository almost for people's memories, because that's how theconversations took place, you know, that's how people chose to answer that question. What home meant to them was that it was the place in which theygrew up. It was the first house that they bought after they got married. It was in lugie scheme. Yeah, maybe their grandparents had loved there.There was such at there was such a wealth of different experiences in differentconnections to this one place, and I think one of the things that westarted to realize quite early on as it there was massive scope for the forthe project to take all sorts of like different levels and terms of, youknow, local engagement, but then also engagement with the wider world and withpeople who, as Matthew already to are already working within kind of histories ofsocial housing, something that I think I'm quite interested in myself and something thatI think we wanted the community consultation to do, as we're working quite closelywith two partners at the moment. So we've got done these city archives andsee that it can who's already been conducting a body of research on Logie,and then we've got Matthew Jarreon of Oberty Historical Society, and it was actuallyoverta historical society who gave us a small amount of money so that we couldconduct as public consultation and really supported us throughout that process with, you know, access to resources, with contacts and really just general support where we couldkind of bouncer ideas prior to launch in the survey. And the amazing thingabout having those contacts and actually kind of gaining access to the wayalth of theresearch it's already been conducted, as we realized that right from the kind offirst social housing and support, which is conductors one thousand nine hundred and five, and then right through to when the houses are built in one thousand ninehundred and twenty, there's not much said about logie after those dates. Soreally what the consultation was trying to do and I think because, as Matthewsalready bloody was really just the and that history. So we've got an ideaand we've got a picture, thanks to Dune the city archives in the workthat they've done about Luki's past. But what is Luki's future and indeed,what does Logie look like in the present, especially at this time of coronavirus wherepeople have been spending so much time at home? Do you know andthe implications of that, how home is kind of taken on new and profoundresidencies in our lives. I think we were really successful and gaining notice thatquantitative data, you know, about how many Personi. What percentage of peoplewould like to actually engage with this project going forward, but actually getting themore kind of qualitative data about comments and questions and starting those conversations from people. So that was really rewarding and some...

...of that came from the fabut wedid put it out as a leaflet for people to a like do online,do this serve in line out or or we also have been your on thesocial media. So we're on the in, we're on Instagram, facebook, twitter, and so we put our survey out there as well so people couldrespond. That's kind of where we got. We've had quite a few contacts frompeople that Rachel saying about what who used to live there, and that'skind of that kind of already adds a sort of interesting to mention to it, like because when you think about I mean housing is like that is influxed. You know, people are coming and go, as I like thatthere can go, that changes even within the people that responded. Some ofthem were like saying I grew up there and then I moved away and thenmy parents died, so I moved back and or, but by that pointthey had moved to a different street. Or ever, so the hood likeand there's a few of those. We're going to try and get into thosepeople a bit more, find out a bit more about some of that.If they're taught to us a home, and I find it really interesting thatyou've got a kind of you've got the kind of the people that you knowwhat kind of makes a seage, and I mean or a place like iskind of a mixture of like what you might like your natives, of peoplethat are like the long time people that have carrying forward traditions or whatever itis. And then you those those houses were built for, in a way, homes for heroes was kind of the bit like the political slogan, butsome of them were ex service people that got into them, from what we'vefound out. So it's and you know, and then they pass a pid.Sometimes people pass them on through their family, so they stay in thefamily. But because it's council housing as well, it's got that link topeople that need it. But then you have if you carry on with thetimeline of it, you get to things like the right to buy which doesaffect housing a lot and anyone who knows about housing talks about that as abig issue, you know, in terms of it has been, it isquite negatively seen by a lot of people who work in housing anyway. Isay that because I used I used to work in housing for a while,so I have a bit of a knowledge at which kind of led me tofind this interesting as well. But but yeah, like the right to buyobviously means Council housings not count not not allocated to people in base of need, like it is now, but it then becomes privately owned or whatever.So there's loads of stuff that I think that we're sort of just we're justtouching on by doing doing a survey to be given with and we're hopefully goingto find different ways to engage with people. So do you think it may bea good resource for other people who may want three sexual key in thefuture? And also me and Rachel, we're talking but this before, anddo you both think it will be something that will help with people who wantthree sexual game about thirty, forty, fifty years even? Absolutely, asI've seen before, there's a real kind of it's a really interesting and Ithink is, as Matthew is all wed into with with the homes fit forheroes campaign. It was was a it's a really interesting time and social historyand in Dundees history, considering that it is the first council housing scheme andit's a it's very much a kind of Dundonian initiative. But in terms ofeven done these identity now as like as a city of design. You know, it's as a housing scheme. It's completely it was built to be bevery kind of equal friendly and very efficient. So in James Thompson designed the houses. The idea was that they would run primarily off electricity, which wascompletely new for its time, and that the central Keating system would be embeddedfrom the housing in the central hit heat and would come from the steamy orthe local washhouse and be transferred through pip to local houses. So there's somany there's so many elements and I think Matthew gestured towards that. There's somany elements within this project that would make be the interesting history project and anall of the run right and I think promoting that history is a real kindof it's an honor but it's also it's a it's a real impetus of thisproject because there's so many people and different...

...organizations. You know, we've mentionedUnde City archives and see that it cans fabulous work. I head of thisinteriorly last year. I mean, there's also so many connections that can bemade towards this period of Dundee's history. When you think about, you know, the ten and even what they kind of pickarity and situations at Dundee facesnow. So when you're when you're thinking about the history of Logie, lookand and the history of Dundee. At the time where Loggie was built,dundees and a massive situation of kind of social deprivation the between nineteen eleven thousandnine hundred and seventeen and there's a lot of overcrowising, there's a lot ofsome housing. So people are really thinking about how can we build homes thatare not only economical but equal friendly and that allow people that kind of spaceto be within the city and that space to move through the city freely.And again that that connects massively to Dune. These a ceity of design and Dundeesas something that's very kind of as a town that's very person sitting trick. But it's really, you know, we want to be able to asan antiative, bring together all these different people who have already conducted history onthe site, more kind of maybe academic forms of of learning and of knowledge, you know, like the documents produced by historical Environment Scotland, and bringthem together with the local residents and with people who have previously lived there tokind of bring together those two types of knowledge. You've got the academic knowledgeand one hand and you've got the kind of firsthand movie, all the historyaccount on the other, all the kind of you could call it like thefolk knowledge or, you know, the stuff that is just what someone tellstheir kids or whatever and it just passes down like that. We just givesome give a little bit of a wave of people to kind of link ittogether through, you know, having a project based on it. But weare are building on what, like Sarah's already been doing research in the originalfamilies and hope to use a bit of that research as well and whatever we'redoing. But yeah, I think like is kind of interesting is that there'sloads of sort of like history is not like some kind of no subjects isseparate to another subject. They're all into connected. So you get like anexample is like from doing this we got somebody talking. Somebody came back tome who would sent me a book about Mary Lily Walker, who was likea social reformer and Dundee. So like that was that was like another bitof history that I stay. I've just been finished reading that and she wasdead before Logi was built. But but at the same time, that historyis not like disconnect. That is all part of why you eventually get theyou know, where you get. Things do get done at a certain point. And why do they happen? You know, so like it's not justbecause it drops out the sky. People have to work hard for it oneway or another, and it's and I think just the most interesting thing isjust to just like try and do something that allows people to have a chatabout it and have a debate about it, because you know, people will alwaystake different perspectives on what happened, whether such as such was a goodthing or not, or, you know, whether housings in Britt you might belike, I mean like Rachel, sorry, did you could be likelook at all the trouble that you still have. You know, sometimes,and I mean I do plays about such history as well and like some likeI've been writing one about Jenny leave, for example, is a politician inthe name phase that founded the Open University in the S, but she camefrom like a mining background. Stuff serious, like a lot of the stuff shewas saying like kind of criticize in the social conditions at the time,about people living in it in the night in phase and stuff. And therewere people that I was spoke to today that were like going to act inthe piece or young people that are right, you know, in the S,that hadn't heard of her or and that they were learning about that andthinking, well, you know, what that really resonates with like what's happeningnow to them or to what's happened in it. Well, what you couldrelated to the last few years. But you know, certainly since to twothousand and eight there's a big economic recession than there was a bigger conversation ninehundred and twenty nine. So when you get back into history like that isyou don't see in a vacuum. You...

...see it, you automatically find relationsand to now, and I think that's really interesting process. Finally, andbriefly, because for an earlier time. What do you hope to see fora Wigie in the future? What you hope to see and how do youhope to see it? As I think one of the one of the centralthings that we really want to do is find ways to bring the community together. So those that responded to the survey who are actually currently living in Bugior had previously living lived in Mulgi really expressed a want for any kind ofhistorical event or community event. It could actually bring local people together under theirkind of auspice of wanting to learn more about the place that they were livingin. But I think people are also very much cleaving that connection and thatcommunity with one another because of this time of social life isolation that we've justendured Um. So I think in our immediate future we'd be looking for waysto try and for fell but that wish, you know, for ways to bringpeople together, for ways to conduct new types of research through creative writingor thill all history, through interviewing residents about their experience. But then alsomaybe in the maybe in the future, there's ways in which we can kindof try and think about new mediums of putting these experiences together. I thinkwe just kind of we kind of come in with a couple of ideas,but it's like we kind of have to let it develop a bit. Thankyou, ter Richo Matthi, for that amazing discussion and I really enjoyed learningabout wiggie project and what it aims to do and it's goes for the futureand I wish Rachel and Mattie all the best. Of You can follow wigieproject on the social medias. Are On facebook, twitter and Instagram, andany support for the wiggie project would be very much appreciated, not just fromme but from the will get the guys on the wiggie project team as well. And special shout up to the finches girls who have kind of let meuse that one of their new songs as the intro further the series of Dundeecasts. So thank you very much to them and thank you for Austen tothe first episode of the new series of Dundee cast. Once again, I'mon your bachelor and thank you, frostened.

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