Episode · 11 months ago

15: Abertay University


In the first Christmas special by Dundeecast, Andrew talks with three students and alumnis of Abertay University, one of the best universities in the UK and Europe for their chosen subjects. 

Andrew speaks with India Lyall, Daniel Pukkila and Cheryl Tornao as they discuss their journey at Abertay and what amazing things they are doing now and for the future and the Vintage Girls provide the music backdrop for the special with their amazing new single, "Christmas is Here".


Intro - 00:00:00 - 00:00:28
Prelude - 00:00:28 - 00:01:19
India Lyall - 00:01:19 - 00:19:50
Daniel Pukkila - 00:19:50 - 00:36:30
Cheryl Tornao -00:36:30 - 01:01:43
Epilogue - 01:01:43 - 01:03:05
The Vintage Girls with "Christmas is Here" - 01:03:05 - 01:05:10

Christmas is he stapin, f Ju TomorrowWill Bes going the best of jokers Endespandin is Cesmas time with the one hello and welcome to the Dunde castChristmas special. This is the first christas special I've done for thePODCAST, and I'm excited should be sharing this with you that song, as Arintroduction was from the finchers girl was Christmasis here, and I want tothank them for letting me use that as the intro for this special episode. Sowhat is he special episode? Then? You may ask: Well today's episode will kindof focus on something that I arranged was Aberti unifersity and I talked withstudents and the Women Ey of the university, and I can't wait for themto share theer stories with you, so without for Lor do wes Gat into it, andso our first person that I that I spoke to was Indaao and she is incredible,await her explain more about what she does. But this is a story that isamazing, so I hope you enjoy it. My Name's India and currently studyingmeal health nursing at Abrtua University in Dunzie. I love in DundeeYeah. That's that's! What I do just now, I was reading your student blog fromworld mad healthdy, and you were talking about like you're what you're doing in thecourse and hat, and you talk, you opened up about depresson. What was that wake for you, somebodywho has myself as anxiety en you know that sort of metal healt problems. Iwould love to see how you got into that journey to you openit up about aboutwhat you've said. I suffered from depression, car Al Ol, my life as foras long as I've known an general anxiety for so long, it was undiagnosedand entreet, and I just kind of soldered on and thought that this wasjust the way people fell and I kind of suffered alawn as well. I wasn't openabout my feelings. I was very closed off. I was very up for just being thiskind of fun G, lucky person who you know the outside world seemed likeeverything was fine, but then, when I was alone I was you know w in a reallyquite a dark place, often not all the teame, thankfully, but alot of the time. So it wasn't until about three years ago now that Ifinally got to, I sadly got to a place where it wasjust. I fel the kind of darkest that everbeen, and even my own family members and stuff starte to pick up on just how sad I was feeling in her wh t dreadfulplace. I was in so it sad like did take to a really really dark place tofinally reach out and and get some help. It was kind of prompted by my mom aswell. She was the one that took me to the GP and just said: Tou Know Indias,you know not opin Wele, she's, quite suicidal practly, very suicideol, so the GP was awlly andhe. Really hetook me sediously and I never really thought from what Adrad or what I knewabout mental health, and I didn't know much. I just knew about how I felt andthat I felt you know you kind of feel like you're, the only one when you'refeeling that way. I think, and that's hi- that's how I felt anyway so but theGP was really lovely and he was really understanding and he got me involved ina team that really helped me. I Maa community mental health team because Iwas I was having a a metal health crisis and they helped immensely andafter Gad a month of talk, thearapy and... know medication and treatment. Iwas finally going o set free and I felt like I was set fe a different person towho I was before. I was a person who was more selfaware more aware of whatwas going on fror me, which was an Elna like anything else, but it was justsomething that I hadn't really known about, or educate, mycell phone or waseducated on. You know growing up, so you know- and I accepted the fact thatmaybe you know taking medication or speaking to people, something that Ineeded to do to make me better. Just like you know, an antibiotic would help contoligt or or something like that, and I learned to Textet that I learnedto you know, except myself or Forfeel, that way so okan o fast forward afterafter you know my intensive treatment and Comig to terms with who I was and and what was going on for me mentallyand putting a lot more importance on self care and on you know, checking inwith myself ar not trying to overcompence it and not trying to besomeone else. Just be myself and accepting who I was an exception. My nmental health. I was kind of working and I wasn't sure where I wanted to gowith my life or what I wanted to do. I knew that I didn't want I as much asthe love my job. I work in a an opticale Boti, an in Dunde, it's one ofthe most amazing places ever, but I know that I knew that I wanted to dosomething else. That was more of a career for me, and that was maybe goingto help me and hopefully help other. So that's how I came to the decision thatI want to be a mental health nurse and study mental Healthner, saying atAPBERTA, because I wanted to make a positive impact and I wanted to make apositive change in other people's lives, because I've been at the other side ofit, and I felt like that gave me some form of maybe more ampthy towardspeople who are maybe suffering, and you know just a little bit more sympathetictowards it and a deeper understanding of how people might be feeling you knowfuture clients. Maybe so Yeahi think that that left experience put me in theright direction and made me realize what exactly I wanted to do, which wasmad. A health nursing and I've not looked back since in my second year now,and I love it, I love people. I care a lot of B. People am fascinated bypeople and it's good that you pen up about your journey from having you knowholing to you wort of these problems, but then using that team ive doing eexperience of, if you know, have that experience and apply it to be a part ofyour career. I want to know get involved in mental health nurse an andwhat I so also. It was a major influence on what you were doing and solike what was the process like? When did you decide you want to go to Abert?And you know, why did you choose O pertap? But what was that like when youwere applying and what was o when you fiund that you got in to do what youget to do the course my direction into Aberto was al bit different to mostpeople, my mom. Actually, she did a course.Aberty she's just finished her sociology degree and the way that shegot in she was also a mature student was through the head course at Aberty,which is for people who haven't necessarily got the crase that theywanted at school. Maybe going in later mature students, people, you know whoare choosing to book to Universtyy after after work in a few jobs orwhatever. So then it was my mom. That said, because I didn't I didn't get thegrades, this earlyt school wasn't necessarily academic. I was more, youknow wanting to hang out my friends and focus on other things, so I applied forthe a head course and I got in and that what that is. It says a one year courseof night classes, every Monday wadunesday and it's a mix of Cato allof the course's, the Aberte offer gin.

I contain Tinto, you know a smallercourse, and so we got to tast ter of sociology psychology, mental health,nursing kind of am sports stiencs. All of that in this course ther reward issuch that you get for completing this course and getting a good grade is thatyou get into university, you get into your chosen coashion university, so Iknew I went into that course. Knowing that I want do mental health nurse, andthat was the end goal, so it just kind of prolong my journey a little but butthen not so much because it's a good alternat to going and getting morehires as well. So I just found that a really beneficial way- and it you know,introduced me to the univers city and anduce me to other students, oflabrertyand yesh. So that's how I got in to make a heathnursthing, but then we alsohad to do an interview with because with nursing you always have to do aninterview. So you know it wasn't Gadanteed to pass in that course thatyou'd get in and what go? What I'm real interestedto know like what goes into the course of what do you do? And you know,obviously, it's really interestedg in the way bats,the wening and how to you, work wish. Maybe people who have Scotmeno Haleproblems and you ov your woof, your trained to be like a in health nurse,and it be really interesting to your Getan. Insay of what kind of thingshave you done in the course, and we where you are at currently so the coursas changed a lot because of lockd on and covid and things, but last year we had classes kind of throughout theweek which focused on general nursing because of course, that's a huge pawerof you know. Physical health o huge part of mental health, just even things like suspected heartattacks Ould be ou, know a patic attack, for example, which were things I didn'treally know about. So I found that really interesting and Obviouslye.thysical health plays a huge part in mental healt. An the sense of you know: Pheical semtims come alongwith mental health if you're neglecting you know your mind than your neglect,ind your body as well so gose to play a part or if you know,you're Oll, on your mind, so we'v got a lot of Generon there, some classes. Wealso got a lot of metal health, Masin classes and those are obsoutely moreinto you know. Mental health issue such as depression, anxiety, postmatic,stess disorder, a whole whole pleater of diffrof different conditions, whichis as fascinating to learn about. I think everyone should know. As I saidbefore, when I was going through my own issues I didn't have the way about. IDin't know enough about mental health, to know that that's what I wassuffering so I feel like it's taught more, maybe from I kind of younger age that people bemore aware, because you know especially with what's going on right now. I thinkion needs to be a little bit more aware of their own mental health and howthey're feeling and what they're feeling and know that it's neveremphasized or or anything like that or you over an overreaction, it'scompletely individual to who you are and to what you're going through. So O. We have a lot of mental healthnuring classes. We also have there's a lot of in class there'LD, be a lot ofdebates about no certain ways of nursings tet Ma we bouht o a lot ofStikma well and within the class, and when we get Olt got clinical skills,which is you know all the essentials for for nursing, Whit. You learn about.You know, you know, Wev got minor handling a and all that kind of stuffas well or compacted thin to honestly about four weeks and then then, byNovember last year we were ut on placement, and I my placement was... over sixty five, a Demainta Ward,that was on Iwill treet people who were suffering from depression, an anxiety and but I foundthe Dimansur award really fastening and Seeng the people there. You know smileand be happy and and have enjoyment, t o out of their lives. You know whenthey're suffering from such a kind of terrifying disease yeah. I found areally special placement and I was really really proud to have been thereand to have learned so much theyare and have made such wonderful people, nursesand patient alike this year. So this year it's been alittle bit more different with classes and things, but yeah weget another placement at the start of this year and then we've just actuallyfinished another one tnow the it's really interesting. You talk about thecourse and Wik what you do because, like Giv refun touched upon ther aboutCovin, nineteen- and I was going to be on M next question- is: How was thataffected? Like your studies, and that- and you know, how is it like affected your menal health as well,and because it has been quite big, has been quite you know, impactful foreveryone, and it's like I say it's really. It really has raised thewarofness like like. Also you SA. It really has people thought, but they mada health during the pandemic. So it'd really be interested inlike. How was itaffected you in terms of your study, andyour own personal menor help, so Ifeel I feel, like all kild of students have felt the impact of coved andlockdown and all the things that come along withtheir phone fom me I phouned a homewolk down really challenging I'm. He kind ofperson who deals with my own man, Ol Health, by keeping busy and keeping youknow unquite social person. So I like to seefriends and watching a family and Hin. Obviously none of us could do any ofthat. Then there is also the worry of anyone. You love or anyone your cuteabout getting this as well. So there was a lot of kind of anxiety thatreintroduced into my life that I h it kind of disappeared for a longtime, and- and I know that I'm not alone, and that I know you knowmillions- billions of people are fe bell. You know some form of anxietythrough this because none of us know what essetial is going to happen. Thenext day, O course bys it was. It was challenging because you know reallyenjoyed the course, and you know we were all taken off of our placementsthat we were on in early March, because we were allfirst years and it was. It was deemed a bit too dangerous to have us out on thefront line, so we were all taken off, so that was that was quite challengingas well, because Wa, something like, Oh you know it just the world as beengoods. We know it change, but yeah. I feel like Joua mock down. so muchemphasis was on kind of self care and you looking after yourself checking inwith lofted ones through you know, wonderful things like zoom and andthings like that, I mean we had a really strong Kan. I support cripwithin the UNIQ. Where is you know? We had a weekly meeting of of our groupwhere we'd sit, ind discuss. You know, nursing Tut Wuld also discussed howwewere all feeling and what was going on in our own lives, and you know whowas picking up. Maybe like bank cheks. You know on the Nursing Bank and thingslike that and what was going on for them, and things like that, it was, itwas really. It was good to. You know still be in touch with some people fromUNIN and so by that kind of feeling of normality and have you know to stilldiscuss your course and still discuss things on that level. It was reallygood somebody who suffered from anxietymyself, my agout anxiety disorder and... know ive, went to Kinof cope withand and like. I have alsoli got and helpind advice in that, and I wasreally wondering what pace would you geve to someone who might be struggling? Who would be in like clue us to be inthes covl in the position that you used to be in and who maybe a struggle ofanxiety indepression? I think the biggest advace don't know if you agree,but I think the Bocu a bice that I would give we pee just reach out tosomeone. You know whether it's you know a Parin,a friend, a doctor. Anyone I think it's so important to reach out because, as Isaid to earlier, I suffered in silence were still so long and it was reallydeat to men. Offto my hail, and you know to my completely detrimant, mywell being- and I ended up- you know, being completely crippled by this. You illness that I didn't knowcessarinSPE CRIFL from because you know there is medicine and there is you talk, ther pay and there are thingsout there that can help, and I think it's a lot to do with battl ing thestigma as well. I think you know there's a lot of stigma around roudmental health and thinking Oa. Well, I just need to be tougher. I think youknow the world demands us to be tougher and to be stronger and things, but Idon't think it's not. I think the strongest thing you can do for yourselfis reaching out and admit how you feel- and I think you know admitting toyourself- is an amazing, incredible thing, but admittin someone else isequally amazing and just finding someone that you trust- and I knowthat's- not easy forit for everyone gut. It wasn't easy for me, but once you do,you do feel a lot better and there is kind of ither is light within thatdarkness and there is a way of finding kin normality. I should probably knowonce you go anxiety, kind of kind of lingers. You know and it's justdetermined ing. What's healthy, Yanzi and, what's you know, unhealthy anxiy? What's going to affect your life in anegative way and not you know, protect you crossing the road or whatever. Really it's reallyi Yo share this stuff,because it's important- and you know it's really- is to obviously reason thewerdness of of these conditions, especially during this time. Rin Nowand- and it's really l interesting- get your insate that you're doing that, andI was really wondering. Finally what I was going to ask you was once you'vedone this course of Ouperti. Obviously you see you want to be a mentalhealthness. What kind of stips do you hope to go in after you graduate? Idefinitely want to. I mean I've still had a lot ofplacements to go, so I'm still not entirely sure what I want to go down.But if I was to qualify tomorrow sang and obs- that's not gon to happen. BuifI was, I think I probably want to work in Demaincha war to work with HemOulsay was in Demansia and probably go down and more ere going to researchthrought as well. I want to do a lot of Researchin into Al Samerson Demansha.So that's my biggest passion right now but, as I say it could change, I mean Iwent in initially wanting to work with people with depression and anxiety andthings and then originally interested and Drog, adection and addiction ingeneral, because that's again a fascinatingtopic and something that affects sor many people in as world, and I thinkthe after effects of corved or I think it's going to affect more for you. That is something I'd like tobe searched as well, but primarly a thing to Mainsharo Amers. Thank you.Fery much o India and I love talking to her stories absolutely inspiring. Thenthat tikes me onto my second guest, who is Daniel Peculiar and he is a computerarts. Student aaberte, he's been involved in Quaa war of stuff at thethe university. So, as ive mentioned...

...before, Iwait Daniel explain hisamezing story and I wook forward to let him share it with you hope you enjoy.I'm Daniel Pokila, I'm from Frieland. I moved to Dunde two and a half years ago,I'm a published boyt, freelands jornalist and a son, writer and IAM, ofcourse, currently studying at every day, majoring in computer, arts and M in mythird year so you're you sai you're originall from fen land. What me getsheas done the to what we just want to come to Dunde Woh, it's a very funnystory: Oris. I was thinking that is stayingfeelland, but dod, Jo of mishaps, and what now eventually, I got theopportunity to come to studyin, Scoton and t when I was going through theuniversities, Dunde caut my eye, especially Avertay, because it's numberone in Europe for like Gameme and like getting studies and in Futur. I feelit's being the base deciason I've ever made to come to Dand, because it's sucha lovely city, everything is like in wolking distance. You have you haveyour shop, you have your Publems, you have your thes, so much going on allthe time. So originally I came because of university, but now with ever anyoneasks me, I'm like yeah done, theste place to be and what so you'R and you're studyingcomputer arts for the moment. What what made you choose that courseand Lik? What's your backgrond en to you what Madeyou? What do you know Likbe where you are in in that study? And how did how did you come to love? Whatyou're doing an Arwy age? Was It wheer when you were younger or you know, andthen how did you come on to think about doing computer art? So you know Avetae? Well, my parents always say that soonas I could walk and hold a pen I used to draw so I always had a huge love tolike dawing and just the arts, and with the years it Drew Toa love of animationand films and, as I was growing up and going to high school and all thatdrawing was always there, especially like films and storydelling in general,and when I finally graduated from high school and was starting to choose whatto do. Thire was only really one thing. I thought I could do and was likedrawing in theards and more so animation and as I was starting to lookinto different stuff. I realized that animation is a huge part of games aswell, and that's why I felt oter day was the perfect place for me. ECAUSE itwas. I could still pursue my dawing. You could still pursue animation andfilms altogether in one c course that felt amazing to me, and luckily I metone guy back home, silling Filin, who had gone to Abertay and praise the sowants to eventually applid and got here, and I can see why it was why I waspraising it and it's it's obviously, when the bestuniversal ASE team of study, video game, defining computer arts and this this issomething that you know abertake as really taken a Prayder, and you know, and and what do you? What do you think ofyou know the course is it? Is it like what you love about doing the courseand compter arts, and but what goes into it as well I' bereally interestedto find that out. I think computer arts what's so specialabout it, is that compared to like different universities and othermodules, like other courses, is that usually you have like only animaton anyou, have only maybe one aspect of game: Isnon, Wel, Computer Arts, whill a AlBout. It takes everything we started: Wer Life Joiin the Weing toillustration, Baink enimation. Now, we've done like three d models, so whatso cool about computes Tut it gives you like, gives you pretty much to try outeverything, see what you do that so weregin when I went in, I alwoysthought that no way could do threethe, I'm only good at to the only join butbcause computer arts. It gave me the...

...importat o try y out. I figured outthat Oh okay, I'm not too bad at that so ma. I know a lot of students thatwhen they came in, they were like no, we jump one just to draw, but now theyactually specializing in feeding so they've left the drum so fel. I feelthat's something very espicial about computer arts and something that, likeno other university has thedel game are a big part of Aberty and its somethingthat the isknown for in the mean, because we've got you've, got a lot of students. You Know Com intoAtai mean obviously the students who some of the women I from arberteincadethe people who you know created grandfato or is something Ik. I saidthe UQERS can be proe Owen. What what's it like being like a student ner? Is itlike T, you're, studying Uyour studying like the sort of stuff I mean? I knowyou say: Video Games are Notbet of the computer arts course, and what kind ofthings do you wear in there because they know video games use not can be abit complex with cod, and you know hthat sort of stuff. How easy or howdifficult can it be is, as is mentioned, is kind of surreal to think that you'rein the same school, studying under the like same influence as some of thegrades in the industry and to be a part of that is quite it's quite crazy. It'svery smart, I think Waberta does also. is they break support like each coursefolks in something? So there are the people that Col they are the peoplethat do the design for and then they are asked like the computer, artstudents and we do their art to the game so slowly, which is very smartslowly. Each year we kind of are introduced you more and more. So first,you were just kind of introduced to like the mechanics on how to kind ofbuild art for you. Lest year we made a small agame, and this year intot, youhave lik the big project, so it', slowly kind of introduced each part ofwhat you can do and what you could do and even like Theya ight were liking,compete arts, each student kind of focuses on something. So this year inthird year, you have the opportunity specializing something so my friendspecialized in tidy a few of my friends, Specialiin Specializedin freedy and Ispecialized in animation after you figure it out kind of how it works, howyou can build a game. We take one part of that aspect and kind of becomereally good at it, which is, in my opinion, very smart. Smart than thatthe course is very pove, the Wato like interest and stuff. That is part of it,and and also it all wenks together with like, like you say, the animation, theDesaina in the cording and like like a sa like what kind of thingswould when you do all this sort of stuff? What is the? What do you thinkof the end result of it, because ITIT's very interesting, Ou know you work onthis so much and then you go on to Lait, then sae, you wook back. What's at Weit whenyou've done what you want to do, I think which is what's something verycool, is that we have a lot of like team projects, especially like insecond and third year, anythingyou thing beause, we usually weget together, come up to a con support game and everyone kind of we worktogether, Bubea kind of takes their own aspent, so I might be focusing onanimation for real long time, maybe doing some dowings and that somehoreelse during the coding and slowly with the weeks you see the game starting tobuild up starting to work en. We have the. Finally, you have like a product Ithink can actually play so it's gone from thought to actually it'smanifested your real thing. It's crazy and I remember. Last year we worked ona project for think fourteen weeks and we finally got it done, and it was likefully polished Ohit's very morning after, like Youve worked in front of acomputer for hours upon hours days of todays, you actually have like aplayeball game and then to realease it for other people to play and if theygain enjoyment from it, Ol. That's that...

...makes all the difference and at the moment, we're in the middleof a goopoe pandemic and Aberta has been quite affected, because there wasalso a kise in that parter house not to angl and to feder the what studentsstudy. How has it affected you and other students that you may know andthat what's a what' has an effect on with your work as well. Oh, it'sdefinitely a very different year, a because, like the first year and secondyear, I was so used to going every year every day into university meeting myfriends there Alo, I feel what lectures all also Sayig a lot of they learningcomes from like from your peers, so we used to see in groups and when we'working, we have questions, we hast ou friends or someone always hoped in theyused to be like a lecture. Sometimes walking about thing like tat, wit,Youon work with you. So that's a new aspect, so you actually have to do alot by yourself. So Alo the lectures are being released online and then youdo them. Of course. That's that still amazing that they can do it. So it'sit's still good, but it's definitely affected. I feel the most orther youcan actually go in and meet other people and work with their face to facelat DI. They have one walking sission a week, but even that's very, very weird,because you have to see a part from everyone, but it's very smartly done soto contain the virus, of course Masadiner Yeah. I must be verydifficult, and you know a lot of the won being infacialtis N, Scotland andnot have got plan to Goen and now who you're doing alo half of the courses inperson in half of them in the wane yeah. I, like you, say it's a different itsdifferent. What do you think I's deafrence of you, Kno wearning onlineand in o Ewarn in person? What what do you feel like? is He different and doyou think it's more effective? Do you think it's more, but it's not reallyeffective and and when you know you know I mean so yeah yeah. I think think.I think this is where we're going more and more in the future. I feel all yteaching, especially N O' ofto, the after well come out of the virus andeverything because the results, I feel are quite good. We still getting ourwork down me and my friends are all doing quite well wwe'r on truck. Thereare ther like the lectures Ofer stations online as well as so we canlike talk like we are right now and yeah. I think I think it's there'ssomething about like face to face teaching when the lectureis right thereand you can just ask them aquistion and they answer you wel, like in class.They just come around and like help you, I feel that's more effecteve, but Ithink this is where we're going more and more and will go in the future asMoll, because as an elternative, it's not too bad it. Just it's a lot. It'smore focused on the student, I feel so you actually have to you actually haveto do the work, because if you go into class every week and the lecturiy isalright, you have not done anything. You kind of feel bad, but now no one'sreally breadhing on your neck. So peatea is just much more on you. I feelright now h and like, like you said, once we comeup with the pandemic. What do you hope to do when you come out with this? Whatthe future going to hold for like what you pinting on doing like mebeing yournext year? Maybe boys are you Pino on doing and that hop way te pandemic kindof you, com, tem and doing that, so what you poin, and what you'r hoping todo, that you've not been able to do now right now, I feel, like my list is justgrowing and growing and growing each day, I'm just waiting that the pub willopen like you'll be able to go like thes social events again in university.I hope that well just be able to work in grops face to face more and havelike with lectures next year. I'm going tohave, like I mean, like someone, that's going to help me with my owners project,so t hove to actually be able to meet them face to face, discuss the takenotes and what not and lit on the big at picture. Yeah next Yearis my finalyear and one good bellont go thing, but... thing: The the pandemic, if you seeas a benefit, is they's actually made everyone think about what they wantfrom life. Never have we really hade like such a quiet time, oflike a timeof contemplation, so I think it's definitely changed my view that I Wyiwant from life. I want to work and I like what I'm doing now like enjoy mywork and I'll go back to I'm on Dane routine, so to speak, and when I kindof I think people after like being stuck inside, they want to experiencelife more. So I think we will finally come out of this. It could be apositive effect that people actually kind of embraced their passion and when you, once you finish, O MoStudies Apertie, what do you to do for the future a mean a of the Ominiforever to go and tocreate their own, like video game companies or the goingto Youko currate thoir own business, to do like like design, and all that? Whatdo you hope to do? Hone you graduate from aperten right now, as I mentionedin the beginning, Iam a wrider as Wellso. I have a book coming down nextyear and right now working another one that should come in a few years, as Ikind of came comber day mostly for animation and for the love of films andstorytelling. I really lovt to start creating my own animations, maybe opena studio or maybe do a master somewhere, then open a small studio. I would liketo work on my own projects mostly, but if I could get work on something thatfeels special to me, I love to Doda, but I think I'll go on an independentrout after graduate and everything diffenintly offers you that, so it kindof shows you what you need in a small studio, how Tou Stop n make a stor up,so I'm really gatful fortous at the moment. Dunde don these go throu a watchange of the moment and we are seeing a lot of new opportunities and whenthem is potential again in e Sports Arina, the said Yeah. What do you think about that? I mean Iwas talking to Chris Fan: Derko WHO's thelso, the German Porforgis Stidios,and I talk to him in e arepisode o the podcast, and he was he was speakingabout how it could bring a lot of good opportunities to the CI and he wasexpressing his one opinion. What is your thoughts when thits, intret,studying and hat kind of field that you know in computer arts or video games inan folve? I think it would be such a great opportunity not only for Dan Daybefor like it, be it be a great thing, because right now, heports is a it'sdrawing, even though many people might not acknowledge it. I feel that is thefuture of sports in many ways and Tou have it in a city like them te inpretty much the home of, I feel the CRANAL of gatmeg design of Europe. Ithink it's donede right here cause Aberta is ier so to have that and causyou have so many students, and so many people that love games so actually tohave it in the city. I feel I be. I feel it would not only succeed here butwould draw more people in and en I think would be a great gree opportunity,and I would be more than excited to have that here when you you're do knowa lot of amazing stuff on the moment like with this course and that whatwould what dvice would you give to someone who wants to who might be? whohad that same to have the seem drivir you when you were younger and what whatface? Would you give them and they wa or what tice would you give someone whowants to get and Bok in computer art, so the Aberty and like what steps?Would you say to them and would say Bush yourself, don't give up thatalways since I was younger, I always kind of I feel evey ardtest and everyevery person doels their dols their talents. I would say just keep going.Ati keep practicing GIP doing it. If you have a name Tifif, you really wantto get to computer arts. You will gain if you push yourself on. If fioll Dujust be ready to be challenged and be always open to learn and take creatlikeRitique, so one thing we are Tou everydhiy is to be able to takecritique and like work on it and kind of. Then you will help eventually, ourour work, I feel a big port also is to... able to work in a team, especiallyin a industry like thise. You have to be able to work in hat team, so myadvice like people that are spiring just studying such a course so likepursue such a career, it's just to keep prepracticing every day. I know thateventually is going to pay off and you are going to get where you want. Thankyou very much Daniel and it's incredible and amazing to see the workthat he's done come with see what he does next and their further final guestis Sheryl Turnil, who is an Alumini of Aberty University, and she has doneincredible work this iner few that I heard was. It was inspiring and Iwanted seeing what this woman has gone through and being the person that she'sgrown to be husband. Absolutely amazing, so I can't wait to share this one withyou and I can't wait for her to share her story with you, so I hope you enjoyit. So my names Sherl Torano and I'm a CEPERSECURITY engineernd atbright solid.I was frutal one to ask you Cheryl. You opened up about your childhood on a bogon Appertis website. Do you mean Cherin that story with us and how it impacted you and howinspired you to be where you are today? As I was growing up, my mom was analcoholic. Unfortunately, my dad wasn't in the picture much my mom heard astring of abusif relationship shall be see and which brought domestic violenceto the house. So repeatedly myself, my sister and my brother, we were takenintecare from social services and thankfully I've got the best granpientsin the world. Wo always took me in and looked after me fantastically, but unfortunately, when, when I got tofifteen and two days after my brothers, ousand nine Tunden thirty, he commitedsuicide. Unfortunately, so like that day, that was that was my chiltood overa santially and when I look back at that point,I've really had two options. I could have went off the reals even more thanwhat already was due to like the home life and stuff or a could a knuckl down. Andthankfully, like the grief of loss and my brothers,it came to make me knockle down. I wanted to finish school likecet. Myexams do things that he couldn't do anymore, so so yeah. Of course it affected me negatively. Ofcourse it did, but at the same time it's always just been in my head tolove for him to do the thingis that he can't do so. That definitely encouragedme and inspired to me without a doubt, but I mean a fancy from a young age that I wasinto computers and to take anything like that. I'm I left school with somebasic qualifications and then wait to work. An office is an office juniorbecause at that time that's what GERLS Gode Lik. They went to work in officesor Hir dressors, or something like that. So I wake an Offi strup. I worked in madious office rules overthe years. Wait from Ovis Junier worked my way up to office managers at thatpoint. In the office manager Rall, it was actually a print house. It was aGode, awful printer that it kept breaking and I just kept research andTope to FEX IT and the more and more IAS Researchn, the more and more I gotinto take, and just at that point of time I just realized that digital worldwas the reforward. Everything was going to be computerized and if I wantit tobe able to support my kids to be able to give them a good life, then I wasgoing to need a good job that paid me decent money, and I figured that Tekewas the way to do that. So when I was, I think I was twenty sixtwenty seven equipment job and I apply... go to college, to study, Hndcomputer network and an internect technology I'm so applied to goaccepted on to, but unfortunately it wasn't meant to be addeciently got into a relly anewrelationship fal pregnant. After that, the relationship ended. I was saingleft on my own pregnant. I had to like reject the college place.There was no way I could went into college then due to circumstances ended up homless. So at that point I had O my daughterwho was like seventy eight, the time and a baby. We were in homelessaccommodation, so it took me a while to get my feet back on the groun basicallymanage to go oftinto, Er House and got the kid say: Ol Vik, school and notlyEtcetra, and then I thought right it's time for me to reapply to college. Soin two thousand and thirteen started the hnd which wey fantastically after an hnd. I wait into t a summerjob for three months, because at that point I was unsured. If I wanted toproges onto university fim honest, I wasn't sure T I was capable. I didn'tthink it hat. I had enmy to go to universiity. I always thought that wasthat was or rich people that was fort of like posh people that wasn't far aDonde girl that grew up in Douglas, so Lasey I'd waitinto the job. I don'treally like the job Murch, so I thought well. I could only try so F put ingapplications to a few different universities and I was so shocked whenI received offers from all the universties that a playto but theabertes ethical hearcendicy. That just intrigued to me I mean for me, it's notso much about the technical state of it like both of n. These fantatasticthings for me is about protect and inducer protectand innocent peopleprotecting kids online there's so much. That goes on online, never days, and itdoes afit kids iffects one oor people, and that is when my passion lies soyeah. I went on to Aberty and did the ethical hearkin degree, and I'mjust really fortunate. Throughout my time, a aberty that I was given aproject to work on, which was essentially, it was a a kids toy. Itwas a talking doll. The doll wasn't supposed to be to swearor Cana inappropriate words or doing anything inappropriate, because ofcourse it was a Chunnel storty. So the project was to see if I could tack thedoll which Atic the project on and successfully managed to exploit thedoll emoved O deabes by the end of it it was it was amusing, but skiny iswail to see this. This little cute blond doll swein like a trooper,because of course Ad Exploiti. But to me it was such a valuble projectbecause I mean the same tily. If I was a bad Harcot, I can go outsadesomeone's house with his doll and basically get the kids tot me tailSOEs Chedul, the kind of doll I'm talking. I've got sweetes come outside,like that type of thing, to Ne, that tabified me that a child's toy could beexploited and such a Weyr to use against the tailt NDSO yeah. Thatproject was fantastic. It made what of newse that actually laid on to me when tograduateed from Ouperti to Beng employed beere. I worked there for acouple of years after thi graduated before moving on to great solid, so Imean in terrms of what Oberty as done ftly. It totally changed my life goingto that university, like our circumstances, by means no, not retchr anything likethat, but we're comfortable. I mean: We've got a rootful for tour heads,there's no more fait of being homeless, an the job prospects it just it reallyhas is changed my life. Definitely when I look back to my childhood there's noway that I would ever have imagined being in the possession, but I'm intoday...

I mean the part of it was lock, butmajornity of it was hard hard work. I mean it was it wasn't easy at timenspot, it's been so worthy. It really has asfet. That is an amazingbackgroound, and you know it's insparing, because a lot of the peoplewho I talk to they've got an amazing background that they've kind of takenlike the like this is finis of like when theyre starting up they're kind ofyou know in a Cu in a very negative position, but then they turn it into apositive and it's special. You Know How came sure that you can get out of itand get make a positiout of a negative, and I feel it's ver Inspairan andAberty unversity is one of the Bestin affercities to study this sort of stuff.I is ethical. Hacking, Computer Games, the Sayne all this stort, so what whatwent into the course like and debt o what went into it? I know you mentionedbrieffully about like some of the stuff you done, but oh, like I'm, reallyinterested in finding that was it difficult and hard. What was it easy?What was a like and when you KINDOF started aberteand? What was at Lake foryou? So, like I said eadly, I was really apprehensive about going toArberty, because I don't think I was capable. I don't think hat was goodEmoun, because ID done the chmd before that gave me a clalence angry. So Ididn't start in year. One of the course I started a year too, which and itselfwas difficult because the lecturers expected you to be a year two levelhaving previously done a yea, so I mean the majority of things were fine like Ihad good knowledge of network and things like that, but without reallylacked any knowledge, was programming. Hade, never done any sort of coding.Before ever and and one of my fabyt first modules appety it was, we weregiven a croramen house with no real teaching behind it. It was just here'sa task goin built this application. If you don't build it, basically, you wantprogress so that Tome was the hardest part of university. I had to learn toCote, both in a very short period to be ale, t able to submit that assignment, but thankfully Dona Igot their asament done. There was various different modules that some ofthem were really hard, but the Hart warders were in Chegan, so there wasmodules called ethcal Harkin which, as you can imagine, taught you concepts onhow to ethically hark stuff, which it was difficult, but because I enjoyed itso much it made it lef less difficult. If that makes sense because it was soenjoyable, there was other models. So there was adigitl for amsix model, which was one of my favorites. We were basicallygiving a computer hard drive and we were told that the Abisi left a rule,playin Cenariti or so the computer, hard drivehad been taken from a Ciminal,and I had to investigate the hard drive to see what was on it so alberty. Theycleverly used a as forgraphs of Borts, instead of as you cul imagine childrenat CEETO. So I had to go through the hard drive and find all these likepictures of barts and stuff. It was so interesting. It was one of her favoritemodels and I could honestly Sey. I will never look at a picture of a Bort inthe same way. Agein him. Definitely not, and so other MACs there was AE modulswail called Te fancs against the dark carts and I must Hav met, but I've beena Harty Portifan that Morca actually encouraged me to Joiin the ethicalharking course. But again it just gave me like fantastic skills on what tolook out for basically twe teach. You have tothink like a criminal. The ideabehing that is, is tecarchaharka. You need to think like a harked, so we werevery much trained to think how to exploit someone, basically anythingthat would be deemed unethical. That would be an Autiu to look up and soyeah its. There was Velly vabt models.

Some of them were difficult, butbecause I enjoyed it so much, it made it that bit easier and the staff Abertylike the lecture of Im, still in contact with Tsom now even befor. I gotAUT Tou et it a few years ago. They end up being more like friendsthan like toos. I think the concabrity is quite small. You do get on it. Afriendly fasty face, like name relationship wit Lekto, and you like.If there was times I nead, I'm the type of person, but I'm like if there'ssomeone that's difficult, hearddod, my any help could someone please help meand they were always very apporchble lat. They would sit down and walkthrough it with you anything that was difficult so between like the DDICATIONand me that that I wanted to give my kids a bit of life because of course,by this pint ar two kids solely dependent on me. So, like one income,two kids, so I thought I've I've taken this time, O not working to beuniversalty like. I need to do this so that commitment for me, plus Thosupport from operty and just the fact that I thoroughly enjoyed the subjectarea. It made it that bit easier and also that hard work that you did to getto. You know finish, and course, and what was it like when you finished itand you know the graduation, what was a lake so I'l never forget the day whenso I'd submited my myfinal project dissertation and, of course, you'V saidto go into feint your dessertation, so I've been in the nuiversity a defandait like it come to the and and like the lecture of Sa, but that's ittwell done you pass that should dege be finished. I no remember walking out ofOberto university onto the street and it honestly could have U Jumpe for joyth, just that feeling of Triaph, like Oh, my God IV done it like. I want toget a degree like it was phenomenal that feeling and then, on the day ofgraduation Havin mckeadspare having my Grand Yer Maan, my sister, seeing howpro they were and then walking across that stage. That was, it was a fantastic experience,it', something that I'll never forget. I felt immainsely plouded to be there in all ordirty. I still had a touch of I felt like you didn't belong. I feltlike Lik like an outside o how to keep remaning yourself like you, a that youdo just have to be here, like it doesn't matter your background, your agraduate the same as everybody else in the room. It was a bizarre butwonderful experience. Itas very amazing- and I love here a lot of positivestories and its very good and wh t was. I CAD ME OF EM wrong, but didyou write a book Boutit's called the race of Sabr ofTraber women? Of that correct? That's right! Yes, so I don'tpersonally write the whole book. There was, I think there were twelve of usand we thout a trap to each sort of this women from CIDEBER and e. eachjust explain our jumniy into cibe every woman in the book. None of us had alineor gounerally Ento it, and we just hope that by sharing I would experiencees. I would encolrage more people, especially more females and deciber we're seriously under represented women and Tak Women and siber women inscame. We just we need to encourage more more women to get involved like wecan do just as good as the boys can. It takes a diversion mine say it takes adiverse group of people to make a team work so havin a mixture of meals andfemales. It does work. I mean in situation that Weai just knoweverything, especially due to like the corporate nineteen pond, Amaceverything's moved on. One businesses were forced to rush online like to havethe workers working remotely Etceta and in some instances security was lelapsed.

There just wasn't enough time and somein some cases not enough resources to make sure that everything we'vedoneline securely. So even more so now were desperate to get more peopleandeciper, we desicately eed, more people to comment. Defene Thingsan wasthe coverinteen PNDAMI can like going into that. How has hat affected you wasdon, like obviously, you've said that you work at break solid and that's abig take company, an Dunde and it's how as it affected you in terms of that,are you working onwane was with them, or are you still going into the office?Obviously Obviousl with social distancein in that, how has it affected you and your work?What you do so because briake solid its essentially its a hybrid cloude provider, but we dohave a data saineer, so that date is in a rea class. Does I think it was leveltwo keyworkers and mean and that we werke thregout, but before theactual government and I'm still locked and we were saying home? I think it wastwo weeks before the lock down to insure that we can keep that datsaing arunin mean bright sold. It's not an overlea back team, so we reallycouldn't Resk for any of us to get sick. I mean the data that we stored in theDaya. Snes is invaluble tell a lot of places like that data same Ar Canical Dimoso. Itwas really really assantial that we were all still able to work. So we havenow ben working from home since March. There's no talk of US going back intothe office anytime. Soon. We will continue to work from home to ensurethat we can' keep the dat sane agoing to sow that we can keep our customersinfrastructure gon, and I mean the customer very much does come fust to.We need to ensure that we could still provide the SARFACES that thosehostomers are praing us far on a personal level. Acay enjoy working fromhome. It's got benefits. Actually I get my peace in quiet,witout, the destraction of people walking past my desk and stuff. I've gained an extra ten hours a weekwithout commuting back and forward to work, even just things like reckast club andafter school club like from a little boy. I don't have to do that anymore,so I know I get to drop off to school in the morning and I get to pick hem uppro school in the morning in which absolutely love packing them up afterSchoel, because HEU still ave age, wer you'll run with his veaums and give mea hug- and I didn't get to do that before, because I was working fieldtime, so he would be like an after school club. So I wouldn't get the atto ack him up to mabe about half five, so I'm enjoying that side of it, but atthe same time, the longer no that it's gone on is getting a bit lonely. So,even just like, when you're in work, you would go to the kitchen to make itcup of teaor whatever and you metbe have ATL Chaup the colleague. Where is now that doesn't happen. WhenI got the Catchen, I'm just munching, when I should be shouldn't, be eaten,I'm guessing play. People will be in the same boal, eating too much yeahfrom walking from home. I think we have all of U A ben in too much so yeah Buti'm really thankful, like 've O.I've got friends and family who have not been as lucky througho t thispandamic that hey've been forlord, they didn't have incomes common and they hadto watch what they would eat and its been herrific for a lot of people.So I'm really really thankful that I have kept my job throughout this that Ido still have a salary commenden I mean for other people, it's just itis. Sosad, it really really is like the laws that people have been pushed intobecause of this Pande mark its heartbreaking and, and I S it's goingto end one day and is going to be behind US hopefulequite soon withwhat's been going on with faccines and that, hopefully it will it's thebeginning of the end and it's it's...

...something that I want like with thebeginning of the NK Wa Canlika will happen. What is positive is to see whatwas going to happen after the pandemic INS. And what do you hope to do youhoping to continue working with break sor? An what's your aspirations for thefuture of what you do after the Pandamic ecause? It's alwaysinteresting to see what people do, because it's always there's always apositive to to something. So what do you hope to do?Wen Sopindin, a Kins Qot, fiy, Fran Yeah? I think I think I wit you knowwhat's going on. Hopefully we can get back to doing ing family friends likeyou say, and you know, geting, to go back into work when you've when you'vebeen at home quater ar and goes for everyone and it its Goinna. Be It'sgoing to be good when stuck happens, and but everyone who's been affected bythis. It's really interesting, you'll get different people's perspectives andstuff so yeah and from your perspective, in Soper,security is quite a big big rule in that as well and like you Sey it's something that is,that is quite important. Even duing, the Pineemi catio make sureeverything's fine and you know yeah. So it's very it's very good throughoutthis pin Dameat Gat. So I also do maintaing and I'm involved in theskills development, Scotland and as a Scameman Bassad, I saw a big part ofthat is Galln NTO schools mainta an all people. I am doing damols for themtalking to them about capersecurity and hearken and unfortunately, that's notbeing able to happen throughout the pandemic. We're not loading schoolls at themoment. There's talk of create and like virtual lessons for the start of nextyear, which would be good, but it just is not the same as actually going onsend down with a Yong person and Chartin with them, and I really enjoyethat I really in spite and lit, enjoy inspire and the younger generation,even if they don't go to Sipe or do whatever it is that they want to do. Ijust enjoy encouraging them, so some of the young people that I'veworked with by me sharing my story of my background. It's in spite of thembecause they lookin thank quail. She grew up just like I did and look atHarow, so I really enjoy shadand that and even if I could just inspired evenone young person to just to just go and do something that they didn't thinkthat they were capable of doing then. That just means a loyal to me. So afterthis Pandemac yeah, I'm looking forward to getting back into the schools backto talking to the young people back to encolrage and them to be the best saletat, we can be. You've really got a pos of attitude and I'm proud of you, I'mproud of what you've done, and it's I'm really happy and to hear your story and I'm one of thething I think one of the faiof things I was waning to ask you is: What face?Would you give a young person who might want to be involved in save forSecurity and and what would you sae to them to getto where you are, because I always ask that to all my guests who come went tothe podcast, so it see anyone, that's intresed in Saber ar butfally,encourage it and support it like an open book. If anyone isthinking about it, aren't too sure just want to little cart like reach out tome, add me on liketen or whatever I'm happy to sit down and chat with anyonethat wants to do it. There's Mayby as different options for getting into it.You don't have to go to university like idad. There are other ways to train. Imean the Enternet is ot so much information. Now so many citodiols Imean you could train yourself at home. There's actually it a it's called the Mossi CyperoSecurity Institute and there actually offering is online traininfor females and forhigh school kids and theyre, offering... for free for females and high schoolkids aand for war veterans as well, free for them, and it's gote greattraining on there her. You could work your way through it and build up likeyour technical skills, your knowledge and the good thing about itis. Itactually gives you like certification, so it rather than you just see thatyou've done it, lea back you up seein. This was the level that the resort it'sa great way. I used it to bridge the GUP from coming from university intothe workplace because, as we always, we know it's always so you don't haveexperience. That's always like the conture for a lot of Grad. You don'thave expedience. So I found T at that. The online packate was a great way forme to see well, Hu, be Co. Ive done this and it was able it allowed me tobuild up like mytechnical skills reaching out to anyone with UNSABR.I've found that the majority of people are the same as myself like happy tohave a chart happy to Gauger copy to maintar yeah. So, like I see if anyoneis considered in doing it, reach up to someone that's already Endi the field.Ask questions. Research, ask other people questions there may be times when you wont getthe answers that you're looking for what I would say is don't bedisheartened if it's something that you wont then gofor Ip. If it's something that your doubting your cell phone reach out andspeak to someone else about at a garden t, but the majority of people are fail,an postor syndrome. I still get it now and whet. You think that you don'tbelong. I think it's its a natural thing in a lot of people, whereas if wesupport each other- and I think by talking through it with a flamly Faso-really really does help. Thank you very much to Sherol and is really inspiringto listen to these stories and Laiketo for India, Daniel and Sherol ther. Justgreat examples of the amusing people who come to Wovin Dundee who come tostay, who come to work and I'm just I'm honored, I'm proud of people likethose free afoe. It was a city and also Appertuni afacity. I want to think, asalways, the three guests who who I had the honor of Talkikinto and I want tothank the fincurge- goes as well. He will play us out on this podcast and Ican't wait to see you Al Win The new yeart. So thank you very much. As always. If you want to support whatI do remember to subscribe onto, dundy cultures, dundi cast pageson sportify, apple, podcast and Tunin, and if you want to support Dundiculture and to continue to work of ton, DCAST WO free to donate on our cofeepage, any donation that can range from a mental donation or a single donation.Anything will be very much appreciated. So untol, then I hope you have awonderful, Christmass and I'll see you in the new year keep safe and keep cool.Thank you very much. Christmas is Herstackins. F. I just onto borrow will begon the best of jokers we understandin this grasmas time withthe one Itthet iits, just sofa with nothing's, going to stop us now, O onand take my hand, O fe e dancing around the Fintil, the Baln Lihe Ttoway Tingis.I songs with you,...

Io Facan Mak, the CLAPAN. I time O it'sa ove TIMEEC begin to stand on e side, Oside, Snowfeel, bssofri, Tinto snow and the WO feel I.

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